The Awakening Vs. Healing Path (And How They Converge) w/ Derek Haswell

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Derek Haswell is the co-founder of the award-winning meditation app, Happier, where he spent the better part of a decade producing content with some of the world’s best meditation teachers & scientists — including the Dalai Lama.

He now spends his time as an executive coach — helping leaders drive more impact while becoming more aligned. In this conversation, we explore the difference between the waking up path and healing.

I was excited to explore this topic with Derek because many people, myself included, have experienced the limitations of pursuing either meditation or healing work in isolation.

His perspective on integrating both approaches while staying grounded in joy and authenticity is refreshing and practical.

At the end of the conversation, Derek does a live demo on yours truly to showcase how these two pathways can be integrated in your practice.

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This episode is great for:

• Meditators hitting limitations with their practice

• People in therapy wondering about spirituality

• Anyone feeling stuck between different modalities

• Those questioning if they're doing spirituality "right"

• Leaders looking to integrate inner work with outer success

• Anyone curious about parts work or Internal Family Systems

Ideas that really stuck out to me:

1. Awakening and Healing Are Distinct Paths: While often conflated under the broad stroke of “mindfulness”, the path of awakening (seeing reality clearly) and the path of healing (integrating all parts of ourselves) are different journeys that ultimately complement each other. Understanding this distinction can help you determine the right starting place and eventually move towards integration.

2. Pressure Builds When We Ignore Either Path: Whether we focus solely on meditation or therapy/healing work, pressure tends to build until we're naturally drawn to incorporate the other dimension. When combined, we move closer to wholeness.

3. Joy Is Intelligence: Rather than following some prescription based on what others do, following what brings us genuine joy and curiosity can be a profound form of guidance. This challenges our cultural emphasis on discipline and "shoulds" in spiritual practice.

4. Parts Work Opens Doorways to Presence: Working with different aspects of ourselves through modalities like Internal Family Systems or Aletheia can actually create direct portals into deeper presence and awareness.

5. Love Transforms Relationships: When we heal our own patterns and open our hearts, relationships often transform sometimes without direct intervention. This points to the interconnected nature of consciousness.

6. Your Path Will Emerge: Whatever practice or teaching we need tends to emerge naturally as we need it. This means you can relax your spiritual ambition and trust life's intelligence.

Derek's framework of awakening and healing as complementary paths deeply resonates with my experience.

For years, I pushed hard on the meditation path while unconsciously resisting healing work. When I finally opened to both dimensions, the integration felt natural and profound.

His emphasis on following joy rather than obligation also mirrors my journey from spiritual striving to a more organic unfolding.

Derek is an amazing human with lots of wisdom. I hope you enjoy this conversation!

- Scott

👋 P.S. added some new format elements in the quote and who would benefit sections. Let me know if you like them!

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Recommended Resources:

• About Derek Haswell

• Happier

• Derek on Twitter

Episode Transcript

• Derek Haswell Full Transcript

Show notes:

• 00:00 - Awakening Through Pain

• 02:57 - The Struggles of Meditation

• 06:06 - Waking Up vs. Healing

• 08:55 - The Interplay of Healing and Awakening

• 12:08 - Finding Your Path

• 14:49 - The Shift in Practice

• 18:05 - Joy as a Guide

• 21:06 - Navigating Suffering

• 24:08 - The Role of Intuition

• 26:58 - The Power of Presence

• 29:50 - Integrating Parts Work

• 33:06 - The Adventure of Inner Work

• 35:56 - The Dying of the Old Self

• 38:57 - Emerging Intuition

• 42:05 - The Dance of Parts and Presence

• 44:47 - Exploring the Depths of Experience

• 51:43 - Exploring Sadness and Self-Compassion

• 53:49 - Connecting with the Inner Child

• 57:00 - Embracing Unconditional Love

• 01:00:03 - Integration and Transformation

• 01:09:00 - Debriefing the Healing Process